The Poll Attacks

Posted on: January 12, 2009 10:08 pm

Score: 94

George from Montana has outdone himself this week.

(Seriously, you have no idea)

Let's do the Poll Attacks, shall we?

AP poll: Whenever I see a strange vote in the AP poll, particularly a strange single vote, I immediately go to ballots from the state of the school receiving the strange vote, because there is a certain "homer" factor that goes along with this stuff, and I've always found it interesting.

So that's what I did when TCU got a vote this week.

I went straight to the ballots from Texas.

Kate Hairopoulos of the Dallas Morning News?

Nope, she's good.

Michael Murphy of the Houston Chronicle?

Nope, he's good.

Randy Riggs of the Austin American-Statesman?

Nope, he's good.

Jeff Walker of the Lubbuck Avalanche-Journal?

Ding, ding, ding. We have a winner!

I promise you, it never fails. The craziest single votes are always John Feinstein throwing some love at a Patriot League school or somebody taking care of an in-state program. With Walker, we have the latter, because there's no way TCU should be appearing on anybody's ballot, and I'm somebody who thinks Jim Christian was a good hire who will do good-to-great things in the future. But weekly AP ballots are supposed to be about the present, not the future, and TCU is presently a team with an 11-5 record featuring losses to Clemson (no shame there), Charleston, Nebraska, Indiana and Louisiana Tech.

Indiana is 5-10.

Louisiana Tech is 7-10.

So while TCU's weekend victory over UNLV was nice, that is the Horned Frogs' best win by far. And when your best win by far is against UNLV, that's not enough to offset five losses, particularly when two of those losses came to teams with losing records. Bottom line, TCU shouldn't be on Walker's ballot or any ballot unless we're talking football. But if the Horned Frogs somehow win at BYU on Tuesday night, I'll be open to re-evaluating the situation.

And now it's time for our weekly George Geise update, otherwise known as the "Curious Case of George Geise (and his handling of Xavier)": For those unfamiliar, check out last week's Poll Attacks, where I detailed how George (an AP voter from Montana) dropped Xavier from 12th to completely out of his Top 25 even though the Musketeers DID NOT lose in that particular week. Xavier fans no doubt let George know the error of his ways, and I'm happy to report he is now ranking Xavier 17th, which means Sean Miller's team moved up at least nine places (depending on how far they were off of George's ballot) after victories over Saint Louis and Fordham, but they have still somehow dropped five spots over the past two weeks despite a 4-0 record in that span.

Confused?

Join the club!

But that's not even the worst of it.

Would you believe that George had Boston College ranked 25th last week, and that he moved the Eagles up to 19th this week following losses to Harvard and Miami? Yes, that really happened. Also, last week, George did not have West Virginia ranked at all. But then the Mountaineers went out and lost to Connecticut and Marquette, so, naturally, they broke into George's ballot at No. 25. And finally, there's Gonzaga, which was 16th on George's ballot last week. The Zags then beat Tennessee and Portland, but George clearly was not impressed, because he dropped Mark Few's team completely off his ballot while leaving Tennessee at No. 16.

My God.

Coaches poll: I don't doubt Saint Mary's is good, and that it might even be one of the best 25 teams in the country. As I've said many times, I don't think there's a whole bunch of difference between No. 15 and No. 40 this season. So if you'll accept that premise, and you believe Saint Mary's is one of the best 40 teams in the country, then I suppose it's OK for the Gaels to be 25th in the Coaches poll.

But I still must ask: What have they done to deserve it?

They aren't in possession of a good victory (unless you want to count Providence, which I don't), and they probably haven't even played a team that'll make the NCAA tournament. Likewise, the Gaels aren't obviously great despite quality wins like, say, UCLA. And it's not like they're perfect either, because they have a 13-point loss to UTEP.

So, I'll ask again, what has this team done to climb into the Top 25 besides play a simple schedule?

Correct answer: Nothing, really.

Every other ranked team -- save perhaps, UCLA, which falls into the "obviously good" category because of the roster featuring Darren Collison, Jrue Holiday and Josh Shipp -- has a victory better than Saint Mary's victory over Providence, and so I guess my point is just that I'm not a big fan of rewarding teams for playing bad schedules. It's why I would've never ranked Illinois State even if it moved to 20-0, why I had Pittsburgh ranked lower than just about everybody until it won at Georgetown, and why I have UCLA ranked lower than the AP and Coaches polls now.

Bottom line, I want to know who you can beat.

And as of Jan. 12, 2009, Saint Mary's hasn't beaten anybody.

Category: NCAAB

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accnodefense Reputation: 89 Level: All-Star Since: Dec 12, 2007	Posted on: January 12, 2009 10:40 pm Score: 89 The Poll Attacks I am probably the only TCU fan who posts here, but I agree, we do not need to be getting any votes. Have we improved, yes; are we more competitive, yes; do we have a brighter future, yes; are we a better team right now then we were at the beginning of the year, yes. But I have been to all the home games this year and I think even a NIT appearance is unlikely. I think the CBI is a reasonable goal for the team this year, and if we get a CBI berth then our season is a success. And obviously, no CBI team is a Top 25 team. I don't know what is more "undeserving" though, TCU getting votes in the polls or TCU being one of Joe Lunardi's "Last 4 Out" on his recent bracketology. We have no business being in either!!!! [ Reply to Comment ]
willardjfilmore Reputation: 0 Level: Amateur Since: Feb 25, 2008	Posted on: January 12, 2009 10:52 pm Score: 91 This comment has been removed. Post Deleted by Administrator
fish2026 Reputation: 94 Level: All-Star Since: Sep 2, 2006	Posted on: January 13, 2009 1:26 am Score: 87 The Poll Attacks-- CAL I live in Texas but feel bad for CAL - they are 4-0 in conference- have won 9 games in a row including beating the Arizona and Washington Schools but no ranking . ON Sportsline RPI they are ranked 6th on Sagarin they are ranked 13th. I like the top academic schools like Cal and not the thug factories like Cincy Louisville. Notre Dame is all hype they have a Sagarin of 68 but are ranked ahead of Cal. By the INDIANA shouldn't be ranked but right this year is bball as it should be - lots of walkons - smart good kids - even a guy from the baseball team who happened to be shooting 3s on an outdoor court one day. Except for the Kalvin Sampson year - IU is the classiest team in college sports. Since Ive followed them only one has had any real trouble with the law -Jay Edwards - a marijuana cig in his car- BIG DEAL some other teams seem to recruit right out of prison. Sampson even tolerated drugs but Crean kicked those kids off - and of course other colleges picked them up. [ Reply to Comment ]
bruinblue&gold Reputation: 80 Level: All-Star Since: Jan 1, 2007	Posted on: January 13, 2009 1:56 am Score: 77 The Poll Attacks If you have ever watched a Ben Howland coached team with talent that needs to be polished, you learn that by March, they are extremely polished and talented. With that being said, since the time UCLA lost to Texas, they have gotten better and I would almost certainly guarantee that if the two teams played again today, UCLA would win. Darren Collison is playing the best basketball of his career. Jrue is finally snapping out of his slump. Josh Shipp is still a detriment, just not as much as he was then. He has learned that he shouldn't hold the ball for more than 5 seconds at a time and his shot seems to be coming into shape. UCLA has a lot of young talent coming off the bench and they are definitely making improvements. Drew Gordon is one of those players. He is energetic and crashes the boards and plays good defense. He still needs a little bit more polishing, but by seasons end, he will be a terrific player. Malcolm Lee and Jerime Anderson are also showing tremendous improvements. Throw in Mike Roll who has gained confidence and isn't afraid to launch the three ball anymore, and you have even more improvements. Sure, our bigs aren't the best, but nothing makes me happier than seeing Alfred Aboya take a charge. James Keefe and Nikola Dragovic both need to improve and come up big, but the wins keep coming regardless. To sum up my point, UCLA is better than they were when they lost to Texas, and if that game was played today, the results would be different... [ Reply to Comment ]
macjohnny69 Reputation: 0 Level: Amateur Since: Feb 22, 2008	Posted on: January 13, 2009 2:33 am Score: 35 The Poll Attacks Amen, Mr. Parrish. I hadn't even read your weekly Poll Attack and I was thinking that someone must have decided to throw out all games from the previous week and a whole lot of common sense happened to fly out the window along with it. As a Zag fan for many years, I'll admit I'm a bit partial and took offense to the foul that had been committed by leaving them out of the top 25. Yet, when I saw that St Mary's was ranked ahead of them, I thought that this is a flippin' joke. The Gaels are a talented and tough playing team, but when they have the schedule that they do, it's VERY difficult to put them in the top 30 teams in the country when they haven't accomplished much except, as you said in your own words, "rewarding teams for playing bad schedules." ESPN is losing credibility for also ranking Gonzaga at 30, and St Mary's ahead of them...but I guess the proof will be in the pudding when the Zags win the WCC and earn a high seed in the March. Don't punish the 'Zags for trying to show they can play with the Big Boys from the East and and just happen to have lost focus for a game or two along the way. 'Zags won't be looking back from here on out and neither should the rankings. Cheers! [ Reply to Comment ]
Smitter1 Reputation: 92 Level: All-Star Since: Aug 19, 2006	Posted on: January 13, 2009 2:44 am Score: 90 Need More of Flash Gordon Well stated on all accounts. I think UCLA may be a little over-rated currently, but by the end of the season they are going to be dynamite! I think the key to the entire season is Drew Gordon. UCLA is overly dependent on its Guards (particularly Collison). They don't have nearly the muscle inside that they had last season (Love, Luc, Mata are all gone). James Keefe isn't really a starter, though he's good off the bench, and Aboya is great at times, but prone to foul problems. Plus Aboya is more of a Power Forward than a true Center. Which brings me back to Drew Gordon. Not sure why Howland is taking so long to get Gordon into the starting lineup (he had Dragovic starting against USC, humh), but the sooner he does, the sooner the Bruins will develop a true starting lineup. Gordon rounds out the lineup completely, he's an energetic big defender, he's a rebounder, he can score with his back to the basket, and he seems to get his hand on alot of balls. Not to mention he's got true star quality and will likely make some highlight reel plays by the end of the year. The dude is going to be a great college player! I also think Howland needs to get J'mison Morgan off the pine, and get some playing time. With a true Center coming off the bench, and a shot-blocker, you would be able to go big against some of the Eastern powerhouse teams. More on that later... To conclude, Howland's style is built around defense and rebounding. If he's planning to take a finesse team to the Final Four, it seems like a bad fit. If he gets the young Bigs into the long-term plan right now, develops the Bruins Braun (so to speak), UCLA will be set for a long NCAA tourney run! [ Reply to Comment ]
Ville4real Reputation: 97 Level: Superstar Since: Nov 27, 2006	Posted on: January 13, 2009 6:42 am Score: 93 The Poll Attacks Hey Gary, After Notre Dame last night, any chance of us returning to your Top 25 and One when (if) we beat #1 Pitt on Saturday? [ Reply to Comment ]
Denny4SMC Reputation: 96 Level: Superstar Since: Nov 17, 2008	Posted on: January 13, 2009 9:12 am Score: 81 The Poll Attacks---SMC deserves #25 Just keep bagging on Saint Mary's, and we'll just keep winning (not our fault SIU and Oregon suck this year--we still beat them in their gyms). We'll earn that ranking with a win over Gonzaga and one or two in the tourney--just keep watching. P.S. You're way too old for that haircut, slick. [ Reply to Comment ]
Denny4SMC Reputation: 96 Level: Superstar Since: Nov 17, 2008	Posted on: January 13, 2009 9:19 am Score: 77 The Poll Attacks Bring on the Zags!!! "Cheers!" you yuppie priss [ Reply to Comment ]
rldolph79 Reputation: 94 Level: All-Star Since: Feb 19, 2007	Posted on: January 13, 2009 10:23 am Score: 91 The Poll Attacks I have as much respect for St. Mary's as anyone Denny, but you have to admit Parrish has a point. If St. Mary's beats Gonzaga they'll have earned the spot, but until then it's almost impossible to justify their ranking. 35, probably... 30, maybe... 25, not yet. Good luck the rest of the season, and good luck against the Zags on the 29th. It's going to take a heroic game by Samhan, Simpson, or Mills and probably a little luck to beat Gonzaga at home, but if the Gaels are half as good as you think they are they've got a shot... I'm guessing Gonzaga wins by 10, but we shall see. [ Reply to Comment ]